CNN host Abby Phillip engaged in a heated exchange on Wednesday with a Catholic panelist who attempted to defend Vice President JD Vance after he cautioned Pope Francis to "be careful" and avoid political entanglements when discussing theological matters. The debate centered on the intersection of faith and politics, highlighting tensions within the Catholic community.
Phillip's Direct Question to Downey
During the segment, Phillip directly asked Caroline Downey, a columnist for the conservative National Review and a self-described practicing Catholic, "Do you think that JD Vance knows more about Catholic theology than the pope?" This question set the stage for a broader discussion on papal authority and lay interpretation.
Downey's Defense of Vance
Downey sought to justify Vance's warning, noting that other figures in Donald Trump's circle, such as Rep. Troy Nehls (R-Texas) and House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.), have also expressed concerns about the pope's increased criticism of war, which has reportedly angered the president. She referenced Pope Francis's Palm Sunday homily, where, according to a Vatican translation, he stated that God "does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war, but rejects them."
Downey argued that it is "totally normal" for the pope to issue statements against war, similar to a United Nations spokesperson, but she cautioned that his language could be "a bit precarious" and potentially confuse Catholics. She posed rhetorical questions, asking, "Because does that mean the war to fight Adolf Hitler and World War II, was that unjustified?" and "The war against the Soviet Union — was that unjustified?" emphasizing the need for "precision and exactitude" in papal pronouncements.
Phillip's Counter with Church Doctrine
In response, Phillip turned to official Catholic Church teachings, citing a statement from Bishop James Massa. The statement clarified that the church has long addressed the "Just War Theory," teaching for a thousand years that nations "can only legitimately take up the sword 'in self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.'" After reading this on air, Phillip pressed Downey again on whether Vance possesses greater theological knowledge than the pope.
Downey's Final Argument
Downey countered by invoking the Second Vatican Council, asserting that it is "up to lay Catholics" to interpret church teachings in "temporal matters." She added, "Just because the pope makes some sort of dictate on political issues, that's not a religious proclamation," reinforcing her stance on the separation of papal authority from political discourse.
This exchange underscores ongoing debates within Catholicism about the role of the pope in political issues and the autonomy of lay believers in applying theological principles to contemporary conflicts.
